Namely 90s
Namely 90s
#239 - Flight Risks: ValuJet 592 & TWA 800
In light of recent events, Andrew wanted to talk about two momentous place crashes from the 90s he remembered and how their legacies shaped the future of airplane safety for years to come.
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Outro:
Pixelland by Kevin MacLeod
Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4222-pixelland
License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Audio file
Namely90s ep239 - Flight Risk.mp3
Transcript
00:00:00 Andrew
And then when I'm talking, please feel free pause.
00:00:02 Andrew
Because if I insane, I'm just going to talk for 29 minutes straight. I'll try to.
00:00:07 Brandon
I was just going to sit here and not listen.
00:00:10 Andrew
Try to pause periodically. Use glaze over.
00:00:16 Brandon
No, I'm always interested.
00:00:24 Andrew
All right, we got that recorded.
00:00:26 Andrew
Let's see this thing.
00:00:27 Brandon
Yeah, LG rreal.
00:00:28 Andrew
real.
00:00:33 Brandon
Did you, have you finally figured out what? LG REAL.
00:00:35 Andrew
Yes, last game.
00:00:40 Narrator
Welcome to namely 90.
00:00:44 Narrator
The podcast that takes you back to the time before smartphones goop.
00:00:49 Narrator
And why do you care?
00:00:52 Narrator
Join your host as they relive the pop culture that shaped a generation and the farts that many.
00:00:58 Narrator
Wish they could forget.
00:01:00 Narrator
Listen in to the conversation about how the decade defined those who spent their childhood there and how it shaped them as adults.
00:01:10 Narrator
So turn down the grunge and dial up the Internet.
00:01:15 Narrator
Let's get started.
00:01:16 Narrator
It's time for namely 90s.
00:01:22 Andrew
That's.
00:01:23 Andrew
You're listening to, namely.
00:01:24 Andrew
My name is Andrew and over there is Brandon.
00:01:27 Brandon
That's me.
00:01:28 Andrew
You can find this online at daily com or on Instagram and Bluesky at namely.
00:01:33 Andrew
You can always find us on YouTube every Monday at youtube.com slash at, namely 90.
00:01:39 Andrew
And if you'd like to get in late and support us through Patreon, head over to ourpatreonpage@patreon.com/neatly and I say Patreon one more time.
00:01:50 Brandon
And you're always. You're always welcome to support us even after the show is over.
00:01:50 Andrew
You didn't get signed up for our support levels.
00:01:55 Andrew
Yeah.
00:01:56 Andrew
I'll send.
00:01:56 Andrew
I'll send you my Venmo.
00:01:59 Andrew
Yeah. Well, we're back. Counting down the weeks.
00:02:02 Andrew
Are as you know.
00:02:03 Brandon
And we're back.
00:02:04 Andrew
Ending the podcast in May.
00:02:06 Andrew
Don't fret.
00:02:06 Andrew
Yeah.
00:02:07 Andrew
I suspect another project will be coming.
00:02:09 Andrew
I suddenly have more free time in my life.
00:02:09
Of course.
00:02:14 Andrew
I have been lightly demoted so.
00:02:16 Brandon
That doesn't sound good.
00:02:18 Andrew
Yeah, but hey, that means more time for Rocket League and various podcasting or other media projects.
00:02:24 Brandon
And reduce the stresses that we're stressing.
00:02:28 Brandon
In your life.
00:02:29 Andrew
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:02:31 Andrew
And the good news is the world today is helping me achieve that goal.
00:02:35 Andrew
God.
00:02:35 Andrew
It's a disaster, literally and figuratively.
00:02:37 Andrew
Ohh.
00:02:40 Brandon
Are you?
00:02:40 Andrew
Quite tragic news with two plane crashes and essentially.
00:02:46 Andrew
Two days, 348 hour period. The the crash obviously in DC and then now tonight as.
00:02:54 Andrew
This recording.
00:02:55 Andrew
The crash of that smaller jet in Pennsylvania so.
00:03:01 Andrew
Yeah. Our thoughts with those affected and that's really sad. But I guess what's particularly disturbing is how this is just distracting from all of the ****** things Donald Trump is doing to this country.
00:03:12 Andrew
Yes.
00:03:13 Andrew
Umm.
00:03:15 Andrew
Not least of which is gutting the FAA and then blaming it on.
00:03:20 Andrew
Right.
00:03:22 Brandon
As you said.
00:03:22 Andrew
This one.
00:03:23 Andrew
Assigning blame when it hasn't been determined what the cause was.
00:03:26 Andrew
Hello.
00:03:27 Andrew
And then assigning that blame to a group that he gutted.
00:03:31 Andrew
I I just.
00:03:31 Brandon
Yeah.
00:03:34 Andrew
Yeah, you know.
00:03:35 Andrew
Not to politicize it too much, but here I am politicizing it.
00:03:39 Brandon
He started.
00:03:40 Andrew
He started it.
00:03:41 Brandon
Your five year old.
00:03:44 Andrew
Anyway, so that's happening and what else?
00:03:46 Andrew
Hmm.
00:03:48 Andrew
Still still deporting people? That's fun.
00:03:50 Brandon
Are these ice raids going on around here right now? Yes.
00:03:54 Andrew
Sorry, did you say icecapades? No.
00:03:58 Brandon
Yeah, there's bands, there's.
00:04:01 Brandon
Like.
00:04:04 Brandon
A.
00:04:04 Brandon
It's a Mexican restaurant in Morro Bay that's closed until further notice. Because the entire kitchen Sih won't show up to work.
00:04:15 Brandon
It's like.
00:04:15 Andrew
Yeah, it's like the entire federal government that he's offering to just be like, hey, you can quit if you want. We'll give you your check through September.
00:04:22 Andrew
Like, that's just a blanket rule. I thought it was like, oh, people who don't want to return to the office, but like air traffic controllers are eligible for that.
00:04:22 Andrew
Yeah.
00:04:30 Andrew
I'm pretty sure air traffic controllers can't work from home. Like, imagine you're working from home and like your Xfinity goes out.
00:04:37 Andrew
Know you like. I just imagine that, but.
00:04:39 Brandon
Yeah.
00:04:40 Andrew
Yeah, but just.
00:04:44 Andrew
You, you know, it's crazy. And the fact that people can't even do their jobs in the institutions and restaurants that we all visit everyday and take for granted is ridiculous, you know?
00:04:50 Brandon
Yeah.
00:04:54 Andrew
You.
00:04:54 Andrew
You know.
00:04:56 Andrew
Well, shouldn't take them for.
00:04:57 Andrew
But you know what I mean? Like.
00:04:58 Brandon
I mean like, what's that? Anthony Warden called where it's like.
00:05:03 Brandon
The US population has a really love hate relationship with illegal Mexican migrant workers.
00:05:10 Brandon
If you were to deport them all at once.
00:05:15 Brandon
And immediately the entire food infrastructure would fall apart from.
00:05:18 Andrew
Yeah.
00:05:19 Andrew
If Donald Trump is eating a restaurant, he is.
00:05:22 Andrew
Definitely benefited from, you know, migrant workers in this country. You know what I mean?
00:05:26 Brandon
Yeah. I mean, what do you think Staffs might want to?
00:05:28 Andrew
It's it's crazy.
00:05:29 Andrew
You collapse the entire industry.
00:05:31 Andrew
Hello.
00:05:33 Andrew
And and how's that good for the?
00:05:34 Andrew
Yeah.
00:05:36 Andrew
It's like the that, that, that meme that's floating around, it's like it's the Gulf of Mexico, but it's crossed out. It says Gulf of how does this lower grocery price.
00:05:46 Andrew
Yeah.
00:05:48 Brandon
True.
00:05:51 Andrew
Yeah.
00:05:54 Andrew
Anyway.
00:05:54 Brandon
Well, if you some consider blow hard and think that Donald Trump's doing a good job and he's still listening to us for some reason, leave a comment like subscribe.
00:06:05 Andrew
Yeah. Or you can go on Doctor Drew's podcast website thing.
00:06:10 Andrew
It looks like Fox News and join him and Alex Jones for a stimulating interview of ******* nonsense.
00:06:17 Andrew
This is going to be an explicit episode.
00:06:18 Andrew
Probably shouldn't be anyway.
00:06:22 Andrew
I'm just saying.
00:06:23 Andrew
Over here.
00:06:24 Andrew
Uh.
00:06:26 Andrew
I know we don't do.
00:06:26 Andrew
Lot of explicits but.
00:06:29 Brandon
That's what the E takes for.
00:06:30 Andrew
I mean, it's also a big graphic, which will will, you know, talk about in a few moments, but.
00:06:35 Brandon
Good Lord, he was pulling out his.
00:06:37 Andrew
Well, no, like graduate descriptions of things.
00:06:42 Andrew
Report.
00:06:48 Brandon
Both of those are.
00:06:50 Andrew
Was he was going.
00:06:51 Andrew
I was going to reference that song by Donald like that Donald Trump thing where he said I'm going to come or something and he's like Bill Gates.
00:06:59 Andrew
You heard this remix of the I'm gonna come song.
00:07:01 Brandon
No, you told.
00:07:01 Brandon
You told me. I don't know.
00:07:04 Andrew
It's.
00:07:05 Andrew
It's worth checking into, honestly.
00:07:06 Brandon
Is it?
00:07:07 Brandon
Is it like Sharma show?
00:07:10 Brandon
No, I haven't. Did the tiger blood, Joey, she don't.
00:07:15 Andrew
I actually don't know that person still alive.
00:07:19 Brandon
Charlie Sheen, or the person who did the mix.
00:07:24 Andrew
Oh, Kendrick Lamar's gonna be the halftime performer.
00:07:25 Brandon
Show yo.
00:07:28 Andrew
Here's one thing about that I'm not gonna go into my opinion of that, but.
00:07:31 Brandon
He's already done it on the podcast.
00:07:32 Andrew
I I could have sworn like a month ago they announced who it was and it wasn't him. Did it change, or am I misremembering?
00:07:39 Brandon
Dear Mr. honouring.
00:07:40 Andrew
Who are they announcing that there was some other musical artist that got announced as performing at some big thing?
00:07:46 Brandon
A month ago.
00:07:48 Andrew
Am I thinking of last?
00:07:49 Andrew
Oh my God, am I thinking of last year?
00:07:52 Andrew
When was it?
00:07:53 Andrew
Year.
00:07:55 Brandon
Pretty much I think.
00:07:57 Andrew
No.
00:07:58 Brandon
Does his brutalizes gay?
00:08:02 Andrew
Uh oh.
00:08:06 Andrew
I gotta look it up now.
00:08:07 Andrew
Was.
00:08:10 Andrew
Usher.
00:08:11 Andrew
Well, I swear they had been out somebody else and they changed it, but I can't.
00:08:12 Brandon
Same difference.
00:08:14 Andrew
I apparently not.
00:08:16 Brandon
Smack.
00:08:18 Andrew
So yeah, apparently I have not connected to pop culture whatsoever.
00:08:21 Brandon
Yeah, associated with your opinions.
00:08:25 Brandon
Grammy winning Kendrick Lamar.
00:08:28 Andrew
Well, I mean, is 1 not entitled to dislike certain types of music?
00:08:32 Brandon
Mujuru are absolutely allowed to have wrong opinions.
00:08:38 Andrew
There think about how many Grammy Award winners think about.
00:08:41 Andrew
Think about how many country artists won Grammys. I think I've just found your kryptonite.
00:08:46 Brandon
I'll listen to the chicks.
00:08:49 Andrew
Chicks. Yeah. You can't call them the.
00:08:50 Andrew
Chicks anymore.
00:08:52 Andrew
Also remember that time they got cancelled from country music because they're Democrats.
00:08:57 Brandon
I wish I never would have guessed your children.
00:09:00 Andrew
Yeah. So anyway, but that that's cool.
00:09:03 Andrew
So apparently I thought it was somebody else. What?
00:09:06 Andrew
You know.
00:09:08 Brandon
You know landslide will something Rascal.
00:09:11 Andrew
How dare?
00:09:12 Andrew
That's a cover of a legendary Fleetwood Mac song.
00:09:16 Brandon
I also advise on flights so.
00:09:21 Brandon
I once.
00:09:25 Brandon
Find a girl singing.
00:09:29 Brandon
She's like, listening to The Smashing Pumpkins version of landslide and say, you know, I love the original Dixie Chicks version.
00:09:37 Brandon
And then, yeah.
00:09:37 Andrew
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:41 Brandon
We broke up immediately.
00:09:43 Andrew
Fleetwood Mac.
00:09:45 Andrew
Dear God, I mean.
00:09:45 Andrew
Of a.
00:09:46 Andrew
I've been guilty of that too, where I thought a song was the original, but.
00:09:50 Andrew
I mean that song, I don't know.
00:09:52 Brandon
Yeah, how could you?
00:09:54 Brandon
It's have you not seen the guy drinking ocean spray, cranberry juice skateboarding to was it rumors?
00:10:01 Brandon
Was it?
00:10:02 Andrew
Rumors is the name.
00:10:03 Andrew
The CD.
00:10:05 Brandon
What's?
00:10:05 Andrew
Go your own way.
00:10:08 Brandon
No, it's. I think it's Rihanna.
00:10:13 Andrew
Yeah.
00:10:14 Brandon
Ocean spray cranberry juice.
00:10:18 Andrew
Oh, my nose is burning.
00:10:20 Brandon
Jai song.
00:10:24 Brandon
Fluid Mac dreams used by dreams.
00:10:26 Andrew
Streams.
00:10:27 Brandon
You do you?
00:10:27 Brandon
Not know this meme from four years ago.
00:10:32 Brandon
This is during COVID and this dude is I think like on TikTok or something and it's just like him, just like on a longboard just.
00:10:43 Brandon
He's in a hoodie and he's like.
00:10:47 Brandon
Writing long word and just drinking out of the entire carton of.
00:10:51 Brandon
Ocean spray hand pain shoots and the song that's on is dreams by Fleetwood Mac.
00:10:57 Brandon
It's just, yeah, it made people smile.
00:10:58 Andrew
Huh.
00:11:00 Andrew
Strange.
00:11:06 Andrew
Yeah, I mean, until Max's good.
00:11:09 Andrew
Bummer about fleetwoods on Front Street getting burned down in line.
00:11:12 Andrew
Couple years.
00:11:13 Andrew
Finally, I actually got to go there, which I always wanted to, and then it burned down like three months later.
00:11:20 Brandon
Oh, I thought.
00:11:21 Brandon
Maybe after we burned down.
00:11:26 Andrew
Let's think about that. How I visited the town of Lion as a tourist after.
00:11:33 Andrew
Burned.
00:11:34 Andrew
Well, it's about 3 months before.
00:11:37 Brandon
There was a reason why you didn't go previously and I.
00:11:40 Brandon
Remember why?
00:11:42 Andrew
It was because of over.
00:11:44 Andrew
Post Mortem was hurting islands, yeah.
00:11:44 Brandon
Yes. Yeah, that's what it was, OK.
00:11:47 Andrew
Anyway, so I was being all wolfed and ****.
00:11:48 Andrew
Well.
00:11:50 Brandon
Bring bringing my levity and eloquence to this episode already.
00:11:56 Andrew
Yeah, great.
00:11:57 Andrew
That's 10 minutes, right?
00:11:58 Brandon
It is 10 minutes 3 seconds plus whatever the intro is and whatever. It'll banter before the episode was.
00:12:06 Andrew
So first thing I want to say.
00:12:09 Andrew
Is well.
00:12:10 Andrew
I because of of what's happened.
00:12:12 Andrew
Week we and my interest in aviation like I'm super interested in commercial.
00:12:18 Andrew
I did a flight SIM for a while like I find them all very fascinating.
00:12:21 Brandon
I studied arts and.
00:12:22 Brandon
Very interesting.
00:12:22 Andrew
Yep, there you.
00:12:23 Andrew
So we're going to talk about some of the prominent air disasters, plane crashes, calm, which you will from the 1990s and also specifically telling the stories.
00:12:34 Andrew
How these incidents led to improvements in.
00:12:39 Andrew
Our air safety, which caused us to basically go was from 2009.
00:12:44 Andrew
We haven't had a a deadly commercial air accident in the United States, which?
00:12:49 Andrew
Pretty.
00:12:49 Andrew
Like for all the failings there are in the system.
00:12:52 Andrew
Mm.
00:12:52 Andrew
We're still one of the.
00:12:54 Andrew
Best, safest countries in terms of air travel.
00:12:57 Brandon
Computer, stop.
00:12:57 Andrew
This may be.
00:12:59 Andrew
Doesn't mean we couldn't be better, but it's hopeful.
00:13:02 Andrew
Smacks like these that can do.
00:13:04 Andrew
So that said, I also want to say viewer discretion is advised.
00:13:05 Andrew
Hmm.
00:13:11 Andrew
Some descriptions of the events that you know may trouble some people.
00:13:14 Andrew
They're.
00:13:15 Andrew
Of flying or have been affected by an air disaster.
00:13:18 Andrew
Just just a fair warning.
00:13:19 Brandon
And I get.
00:13:20 Brandon
Be the funny guy this week.
00:13:22 Andrew
Yeah. One of the great tasks I've given you.
00:13:24 Andrew
Have to try.
00:13:25 Andrew
Be funny, but I mean, there's places.
00:13:27 Andrew
To be funny in this but, but mostly not.
00:13:30 Brandon
Yeah.
00:13:31 Andrew
So anyway, we are going to start with.
00:13:33 Andrew
Value Jet Airlines flight 592, which took place on May 11th, 1996 and.
00:13:41 Andrew
The name of that company kind of tells the story. I'll say that.
00:13:46 Andrew
It's.
00:13:46 Brandon
Spirit Airline 1.0.
00:13:49 Andrew
Yeah, yeah, I think it was absorbed by.
00:13:53 Andrew
They had absorbed by somebody, I don't know which company it was, but.
00:13:56 Andrew
But we've gone away now.
00:14:00 Brandon
'Cause they were rebranded as AirTran Airlines and merged into AirTran Airways.
00:14:06 Andrew
An AirTran got bought by Stealth W Southwest.
00:14:08 Brandon
Southwest.
00:14:11 Andrew
Exactly what I was saying.
00:14:12 Andrew
Mm.
00:14:13 Andrew
So anyway I.
00:14:16 Andrew
In this situation, a McDonald Douglas DC-9 operating the Miami to Atlanta route crashed into the Florida Everglades about 10 minutes after departing Miami. As a result of a fire in the cargo compartment caused by mislabeled and improperly stored hazardous cargo. Remember this?
00:14:32 Andrew
I don't.
00:14:34 Brandon
I also the only one I remember is TWA Flight 800.
00:14:35 Andrew
I don't.
00:14:41 Andrew
Spoiler alert.
00:14:44 Andrew
Anyway, I remember this one because I like my parents, always had, like the local news on at night before dinner. So I usually see these things, but I remember specifically, I didn't know anything else about it other than it crashed in the Everglades.
00:14:50 Andrew
Mm.
00:14:57 Andrew
And it was really difficult to like.
00:15:00 Andrew
Figure all the stuff out because of the access.
00:15:02 Andrew
We'll.
00:15:03 Andrew
In a little bit later, when we talk about the search and rescue and recovery efforts.
00:15:06 Andrew
Oh.
00:15:08 Andrew
That was, I do actually remember this one.
00:15:10 Andrew
To some degree.
00:15:11 Brandon
And it was a DC-10.
00:15:15 Andrew
I mean I copied directly from Wikipedia as it was ADC 9, so I'm gonna trust that.
00:15:20 Andrew
Uh.
00:15:23 Brandon
No, I'm.
00:15:23 Andrew
I.
00:15:23 Brandon
There was a a different part that says DC.
00:15:26 Brandon
Did you say DC-9?
00:15:27 Brandon
Yeah, not listening.
00:15:28 Andrew
DC-9.
00:15:28 Andrew
Yep. So the this DC-9 in particular was 27 years old than been previously flown by Delta. Its first flight occurred in 1969.
00:15:35 Andrew
Yeah.
00:15:39 Andrew
Granted, it was 96, so that year sounds really old.
00:15:43 Andrew
It's not as bad as it as it seems.
00:15:45
Yeah.
00:15:46 Andrew
Delta had that plane until 92 sold back to McDonald Douglas, and then they then resold the plane to value jet in 93.
00:15:53 Andrew
I always check the age of my airplane when I fly.
00:15:58 Andrew
And I flew on a.
00:15:59 Andrew
There was 35 years of.
00:16:02 Andrew
I was like, do I have to get on this?
00:16:04 Andrew
I I think.
00:16:05 Andrew
The issue is just like we've done that many cycles like they're obviously safe, you know, but they're you do get these like micro cracks and things and some of the components and parts.
00:16:14 Andrew
It's a little bit nerve wracking and they feel.
00:16:17 Andrew
A bit wickedy sometimes when they're of that age.
00:16:20 Andrew
Yeah.
00:16:22 Brandon
And you know, these days, maintenance isn't done as often.
00:16:26 Brandon
As it used to be.
00:16:28 Andrew
Well, especially the value carriers like sometimes they do in theory.
00:16:32 Andrew
Or at least this one may have, but in any case, this particular aircraft had suffered a series of incidents the two years before the crash.
00:16:34 Brandon
Mm.
00:16:40 Andrew
Including two aborted takeoffs and eight emergency landings, engine and pressurization errors were the primary issues, and in May 95 the FAA issued a rewiring directive for all DC-9 cockpit.
00:16:53 Andrew
Because the wire bundles in the switch panel could cause fire and uncontrolled smoke throughout the cockpit.
00:16:59 Andrew
Which is not very when you're a flight.
00:16:59 Andrew
Why were fading?
00:17:01 Brandon
Why were they not recalled or decommissioned or?
00:17:04 Andrew
Well, that's what this.
00:17:05 Andrew
The Rewiring directive was to fix that, apparently, but.
00:17:10 Andrew
It was not a matter of pilot experience, though.
00:17:13 Andrew
Catherine Candy Kuback, 35 years old and Rich, First Officer Richard Hayes and 52 years old, were in command.
00:17:20 Andrew
And both of them were extremely experienced pilots.
00:17:25 Andrew
I.
00:17:25 Andrew
I don't think there's any question. There's nothing.
00:17:26 Andrew
You know, they could have done or didn't do that. You know that.
00:17:32 Andrew
In total, there were 110 people on board, 105 passengers, mostly from the Florida and Georgia areas and obviously the two pilots and three flight attendants. The plane departed at 2:04 local time and departed from Runway 9 left, and began a.
00:17:49 Andrew
Climb out.
00:17:52 Brandon
I'm sorry, I'm just.
00:17:54 Brandon
Why candy Kubik has a entire Wikipedia page dedicated to her.
00:17:58 Andrew
I don't know. So clear.
00:18:00 Andrew
Lady, you know.
00:18:01 Andrew
You know.
00:18:02 Andrew
But other than this, what she famous for?
00:18:05 Brandon
This.
00:18:07 Andrew
Of interesting, huh?
00:18:09 Brandon
Like like.
00:18:10 Brandon
She married Roger Kubica on the Queen Mary like someone seriously has.
00:18:14 Andrew
Hmm. Oi went into the detail.
00:18:17 Brandon
Filled this out for no reason.
00:18:20 Andrew
So anyway, took off at 2:04. About 6 minutes later at 210, roughly the passengers began to smell smoke and at the same time the pilots heard a loud bang in their headsets and noticed that the plane was losing electrical power.
00:18:34 Andrew
Seconds later, this is a flight attendant enters the cockpit and forms a flight crew of a fire in the passenger cabin.
00:18:43 Andrew
Unfortunately, on the the cockpit voice recorder, they could actually hear the passengers shouting about a fire.
00:18:52 Andrew
The flight attendant manual specifically stated that they should not open the cockpit door when there's smoke or harmful gases in the cabin.
00:18:59 Andrew
Makes sense, right?
00:19:00 Andrew
But of course this is value.
00:19:04 Andrew
Air com not functioning.
00:19:06 Andrew
No other way to tell the pilots.
00:19:09 Andrew
Like, knock twice for fire.
00:19:10 Andrew
Mean.
00:19:10 Andrew
You know, you've got to.
00:19:11 Andrew
So.
00:19:11 Andrew
They had to.
00:19:12 Andrew
The door and whether that actually affected the pilots or not, I don't know. But that was against policy.
00:19:17 Andrew
Right.
00:19:19 Andrew
But if Intercom doesn't work, how can you make that?
00:19:20 Andrew
It is, yeah.
00:19:22 Andrew
Policy, right?
00:19:23 Brandon
It is strange that that.
00:19:27 Brandon
Happened. You know, the whole idea of a black box is kind of mortifying to me, 'cause.
00:19:34 Andrew
Yeah.
00:19:36 Brandon
Just.
00:19:38 Andrew
Also, apparently withstand almost anything.
00:19:41 Andrew
Like they.
00:19:42 Andrew
Almost indestructible, which is crazy considering the forces that are at play.
00:19:46 Andrew
Mm.
00:19:47 Andrew
But they typically they have the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder been separate.
00:19:54 Andrew
You know, devices, apparently.
00:19:57 Brandon
Yeah, who doesn't need to hear all that.
00:20:02 Andrew
Yeah, imagine being a person who has to sift through.
00:20:05 Andrew
That gross.
00:20:07 Andrew
Imagine being the person on CNN who has to keep playing it over and over again because we can't help ourselves.
00:20:13 Andrew
Anyway, so when this all happened.
00:20:16 Andrew
The pilots immediately asked ATC to return to Miami and were given instructions. One minute later, the first officer requested the nearest available airport and Captain Quebec began to turn the plane left in preparation for the return.
00:20:30 Andrew
3 minutes later, the Flight 592 disappeared from radar 2:13 PM when it crashed about two minutes after takeoff.
00:20:40 Andrew
Eyewitnesses watched as the plane banged sharply rolled onto its side.
00:20:44 Andrew
And nose dived into the Francis S Tailor Wildlife management area in the Everglades, a few miles West of Miami, and speed in excess of 507 mph.
00:20:58 Andrew
The pilots made a valiant effort to control things.
00:21:04 Andrew
That they thought basically the plane lost control just 10 seconds before the impact.
00:21:08 Andrew
That the captain was in control and trying to safely get that back.
00:21:12 Andrew
To the airport.
00:21:15 Andrew
But unfortunately, examination of the debris showed that fire had burned through the floorboards in the cabin and resulted in a structural failure, but more importantly, damaged the cables underneath the instrument panels and also they could not rule out that they were incapacitated by.
00:21:32 Andrew
Smoke or heat in the cockpit during the last 7 seconds of the flight. I think it's well, well thought that the controls just weren't working because of the fire at that point.
00:21:42 Brandon
Back in the day, when you could just enter the cockpit, no problem from the outside.
00:21:47 Andrew
Right. And this is not fly by wire.
00:21:49 Andrew
Is cables and pulleys and.
00:21:51 Andrew
You know, it's it's there's no electric. I mean, there's a little bit of electrical, but it's not like the sophisticated fly by wire stuff we have now.
00:21:52 Andrew
Right.
00:22:00 Andrew
Anyway, so unfortunately, as as we would expect, all 110 passengers were did not survive in this crash.
00:22:09 Andrew
And because of the location, it was extremely difficult to get to the location and the location of its own complications.
00:22:15 Andrew
For example, the nearest Rd. of any kind was more than 1/4 of a mile away.
00:22:20 Andrew
And it was either deep water swamp. In addition to that, sawgrass alligators and the risk of bacterial infection from cuts plague searchers involved in recovery efforts.
00:22:29 Andrew
Basically it.
00:22:30 Andrew
Couldn't have been more difficult to get to the site and deal with that.
00:22:36 Andrew
The NTSB conducted a 15 month investigation which determined that the fire had developed in a the cargo compartment below the passenger cabin.
00:22:46 Andrew
So the.
00:22:47 Andrew
Basically this is a little bit technical, but I'm going to explain it.
00:22:50 Andrew
It is important.
00:22:51 Andrew
So the NTSB determined that just before take off, 144 expired chemical oxygen generators have been placed in the cargo compartment in five boxes.
00:23:02 Andrew
This violated the FAA regulations, the transport of hazardous materials into passenger aircraft cargo holds.
00:23:09 Andrew
Is.
00:23:09 Andrew
You came in your lithium ion battery in there.
00:23:13 Brandon
What is Olivia?
00:23:13 Andrew
The well, I just know when they fail, they explode.
00:23:18
Right.
00:23:20 Andrew
But a failure to cover the generator's firing pins with the prescribed plastic caps made accidental activation much more likely. The investigation revealed that rather than covering the pins, maintenance personnel simply cut the cords attached to the pins or applied duct tape around the cans.
00:23:35 Andrew
Yes, duct tape, well known to.
00:23:36 Andrew
A very safe.
00:23:38 Andrew
Product for this sort of situation.
00:23:38 Andrew
The.
00:23:40 Andrew
Mm.
00:23:41 Andrew
And consumer grade adhesive tape was also used to secure the ends indicated on the cargo manifest. The oxy canisters were loosely packed in boxes.
00:23:48 Andrew
Each were sealed with tape and bubble wrap, and were quote UN quote empty that was determined not to be the case.
00:23:58 Andrew
The boxes were then loaded in mistakenly believing that the devices were simply empty canisters and would be safe and legal to transport on a passenger aircraft.
00:24:09 Andrew
For those of you who don't know, because I didn't know, chemical oxygen generators were activated, produce oxygen for passengers. If the plane suffers a decompression.
00:24:16 Andrew
Presumably masks comes down don't have big oxygen tanks.
00:24:21 Andrew
Generate oxygen.
00:24:23 Andrew
But it is a certain type of reaction called an exothermic reaction, which creates a lot of heat.
00:24:30 Andrew
Mm.
00:24:33 Andrew
Therefore, not only can the heat and.
00:24:35 Andrew
Oxygen.
00:24:36 Andrew
But the oxygen can also keep the fire burning.
00:24:40 Andrew
The investigators determined that one of the oxygen can cause cancers was likely triggered when the plane experienced a slight jolt.
00:24:46 Andrew
While taxiing and as a taxi took off, the generator began releasing heat and caused the other canisters to activate.
00:24:53 Andrew
Each activation created more heat, which rapidly caused all the generators to activate a chain reaction.
00:24:59 Andrew
The intense heat ignited a fire of the inner cargo materials and the fire worsened by the presence of the two.
00:25:05 Andrew
Aircraft tires.
00:25:10 Andrew
Sorry. Oh, there were aircraft tires in the plane that popped, which made problems as well. 'cause, they contain oxygen.
00:25:16 Andrew
So the problem is the oxygen from the generators fed the resulting fire in the cargo hole without any need for outside air. Defeating the cargo holds air tight design, which was theoretically to prevent fire by eliminating oxygen.
00:25:23 Andrew
I was not saying that.
00:25:29 Andrew
So no oxygen, no fire.
00:25:31 Andrew
Therefore it's.
00:25:32 Andrew
But when you put oxygen generating devices in there, you now have a recipe for a fire.
00:25:39 Brandon
Two questions.
00:25:40 Andrew
Yeah.
00:25:42 Brandon
Is a pet cargo a whole different from a regular cargo hold?
00:25:46 Andrew
They've changed cargo holds.
00:25:49 Andrew
No animals can go to the cargo hold.
00:25:52 Andrew
I'll come back to that, but investigators determined in the process the fire began to destroy the control cables that ran in the back of the aircraft, which is why the pilots began losing control before it crashed.
00:26:04 Andrew
And the airplane was under positive control by the pilots until the sharp turn right and dive prior to impact.
00:26:12 Andrew
They were giving it their best effort.
00:26:15 Brandon
Yeah.
00:26:16 Brandon
Second question, doesn't every basically every rechargeable battery listening on a battery?
00:26:17 Andrew
Yeah, go ahead.
00:26:22 Andrew
Yes.
00:26:22 Brandon
Yeah. And how many people just played me live? Yeah.
00:26:24 Andrew
Why?
00:26:26 Andrew
Yeah, that's true.
00:26:27 Andrew
Not ideal.
00:26:30 Andrew
But the regulatory that came regulatory change that came to this and that's why it's more to come is that smoke detectors in the cargo holds can alert the flight crew fire long before the problem becomes apparent in the cabin. And a fire suppression system buys valuable time to.
00:26:41 Andrew
Mm.
00:26:44 Andrew
The plane safely.
00:26:45 Andrew
This would have prevented a scenario similar to this this crash.
00:26:49 Andrew
In which the emergency had escalated beyond the flight crews ability to respond by the time that the problem had become apparent.
00:26:55 Andrew
In February 1998, the FAA issued revised standards requiring all Class D Cargo holds, which this one was to be converted by early 2001 to Class C or E These types of holds have additional fire detection and fire suppression equipment.
00:27:05 Brandon
You understand?
00:27:11 Andrew
But yes, animals can go in the cargo hold and survive, so I would suspect they're not as airtight, because otherwise you would die.
00:27:19 Andrew
But if you have fire detection suppression, that's theoretically a better system than just depriving oxygen.
00:27:25 Andrew
In this situation there something they can do.
00:27:27 Andrew
Mean there's too much oxygen.
00:27:29 Brandon
Mm.
00:27:31 Andrew
So you.
00:27:31 Andrew
This at least made some positive change in the way that cargo holds were handled and the way that fire suppression and fire detection were implemented in future aircraft.
00:27:42 Brandon
But if you had to go to a Class C or a class E, just getting rid of the Class D cargo holes.
00:27:51 Andrew
Yeah, that is weird.
00:27:53 Andrew
It's like it's an elegant solution.
00:27:55 Andrew
Make it airtight.
00:27:57 Andrew
But unfortunately this was literally the perfect.
00:28:00 Andrew
Storm Perfect series of events. But when air disasters are so uncommon, it almost has to be, you know, like if common things cause them and it happen all the time. But for them to be so spectacularly uncommon means that the perfect set of circumstances, and by perfect I.
00:28:17 Andrew
Worst set of circumstances would have to occur.
00:28:21 Andrew
Sure.
00:28:22 Brandon
So what?
00:28:22 Andrew
Hmm.
00:28:23 Brandon
Who, who got went to jail for this?
00:28:26 Andrew
Really. Basically the company got in trouble. Some value jet got in trouble.
00:28:33 Andrew
The maintenance contractor got in trouble for marking these as empty.
00:28:39 Andrew
But there were no.
00:28:40 Andrew
I don't believe there were any criminal charges. I I don't have that information. But the main contributors were just the airline and the maintenance people who loaded the stuff on the plane.
00:28:52 Brandon
It feels like you're.
00:28:53 Brandon
The real.
00:28:54 Brandon
Here in pop culture, the series premiere of CSI Miami.
00:28:59 Brandon
Also, reference elements of this crash, such as the Everglades search.
00:29:01 Andrew
Oh, I missed that. It makes sense.
00:29:04 Andrew
Yeah, I did miss that. I'm sorry.
00:29:07 Brandon
Stop two and two together.
00:29:08 Andrew
Yeah, I don't even wanna know what Horatio Kane says in the beginning of that episode.
00:29:14 Brandon
I think I want to say they were still serial like serious more serious back then before.
00:29:19 Andrew
Right, right. Yeah.
00:29:21 Brandon
Yeah, Hindu.
00:29:25 Brandon
Well, you know what they say.
00:29:28 Brandon
The evergrades suck evergrades.
00:29:30 Andrew
Yeah, evergreens.
00:29:33
Yeah.
00:29:34 Andrew
Put those glasses on.
00:29:36 Andrew
That's the worst.
00:29:37 Andrew
I.
00:29:37 Andrew
Of the whole song, by the way.
00:29:39 Brandon
I still remember the one where he's like you.
00:29:42 Brandon
Know what they say.
00:29:44 Brandon
Speed kills.
00:29:47 Andrew
Replay.
00:29:49 Andrew
Oh gosh. Well, umm, let's see.
00:29:52 Andrew
Was in May, right?
00:29:55 Andrew
Well, unfortunately two months passed.
00:29:59 Brandon
Two months passed.
00:30:00 Andrew
And then another thing happens.
00:30:02 Brandon
Another thing did happen, yes.
00:30:05 Andrew
So I think more people are familiar with the Transworld Airlines flight 800 or TWA 800.
00:30:14 Andrew
Although I have a new conspiracy theory on why this one happened.
00:30:17 Brandon
Interesting.
00:30:18 Andrew
And has transfer.
00:30:19 Andrew
So I believe Donald Trump was responsible for yeah, sorry.
00:30:24 Brandon
Taking it out, you know.
00:30:25 Andrew
I'm just saying.
00:30:27 Andrew
Anyway, that's. That was my little joke. But we'll get into the serious nature of this now.
00:30:33 Andrew
So this was a scheduled international passenger flight from JFK in New York to Rome with a stop over in France.
00:30:41 Andrew
12 minutes after take off the Boeing 747 100 exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean South of the Hamptons.
00:30:49 Andrew
New York.
00:30:51 Andrew
You know, the Hamptons is.
00:30:53 Brandon
Yes, it's where that one concierge Dr. on us a practice medicine.
00:30:58 Andrew
And Ina Garten Barefoot Contessa lives there.
00:31:01 Brandon
Was Jeffrey.
00:31:03 Andrew
Jeffrey Jeffrey's gonna love.
00:31:04 Andrew
He.
00:31:05 Andrew
He's not gonna love this podcast, though.
00:31:06 Brandon
He was a.
00:31:07 Brandon
He was a that was a question yesterday at trivia, which we won, by the way.
00:31:11 Andrew
Emeritus Dean of I think business at Yale.
00:31:14 Andrew
Really. Yeah.
00:31:17 Brandon
'Cause, I figured he was just like a trap husband or something.
00:31:20 Andrew
No, he's he's an emeritus professor of, I think it's economics or something at at Yale, so you know.
00:31:29 Andrew
Anyway, the aircraft involved was manufactured in July 1971, so I guess 25 years old and completed nearly 17,000 flights in around 93 hours of operation.
00:31:35 Andrew
Mm.
00:31:44 Andrew
The crew is led by 58 year old captain Ralph G Kevorkian. That's not.
00:31:51 Brandon
No, no relations.
00:31:53 Andrew
Don't know. Actually I feel like they would.
00:31:55 Andrew
Said that, it's not.
00:31:57 Andrew
It's just like that name has become, so you know.
00:32:01 Brandon
Synonymous with foreign.
00:32:02 Andrew
Synonymous. It also seems kind of like a rare name. Anyway, correct us if we're wrong.
00:32:06 Andrew
Phoned for TWA for 31 years in the US Air Force for nine years and had logged many, many hours.
00:32:12 Andrew
And then the other captain, Steven E Snyder, 57, had flown for TWA for 32 years.
00:32:21 Andrew
There actually.
00:32:22 Andrew
Like four other people, there was like people training in the cockpit and the navigator. And like the systems person. But it just got to be too many people to.
00:32:29 Andrew
Name them all so.
00:32:32 Andrew
There were actually 230 people on board in total, which included sixteen other crew members and 20 off duty employees. Because those employees were going to be the crew meant to cover the Paris to Rome leg.
00:32:43 Andrew
But unfortunately none of the 230 occupants of the aircraft survived.
00:32:51 Andrew
Notable to passengers.
00:32:53 Andrew
This is a brief list.
00:32:55 Andrew
More.
00:32:56 Andrew
This is.
00:32:57 Andrew
Jed Johnson, Andy Warhol's partner of 12 years, interior designer and director, passed away.
00:33:01 Andrew
Hmm.
00:33:04 Brandon
Group to match.
00:33:05 Andrew
Pam Lichtner, American crime victims rights advocate and former TWA flight attendant.
00:33:11 Brandon
Look the Max.
00:33:13 Andrew
This one maybe you'll know.
00:33:14 Andrew
You won't.
00:33:15 Andrew
Courtney Elizabeth Johns, sister of Jeff Johns.
00:33:18 Andrew
You know why?
00:33:19 Andrew
Important.
00:33:20 Brandon
Jeff Jones, the comic book artist.
00:33:22 Andrew
Yes.
00:33:25 Andrew
In sister Courtney, Elizabeth Johns was the inspiration for the DC comic superhero Courtney Whitmore Slash Star Girl.
00:33:32 Brandon
Oh really?
00:33:33 Andrew
So I figured I'd do.
00:33:34 Andrew
In there for you. I knew you that one. Yeah.
00:33:35 Brandon
Appreciate that.
00:33:37 Andrew
Jack O'Hara, executive producer of ABC Sports, along with his wife and daughter, he was going to France to supervise coverage of.
00:33:44 Andrew
Tour de France.
00:33:46 Andrew
To the phone, yeah.
00:33:46 Andrew
Bike race, right?
00:33:47 Andrew
This is the saddest part in what was to be his last assignment for the network after being let go the previous week.
00:33:54
I knew enough.
00:33:54 Andrew
God, if you were.
00:33:55 Andrew
If you thought you were having a bad day.
00:33:58 Andrew
Yeah, that's that's really rough.
00:34:03 Andrew
And to make it even worse, so sorry, 16 students and five little chaperones from the French club of the Montoursville Area High School in Pennsylvania also passed away on this flight.
00:34:15 Brandon
Sorry, did they?
00:34:18 Brandon
They also have like 16 newborn babies and a creative puppies and.
00:34:24 Andrew
Yeah.
00:34:26 Andrew
It was a bunch of nuns on their way to a.
00:34:28 Andrew
Now this isn't funny, but it's like it just goes to show you that like it's always just a combination of regular people going through regular things and like some of them having a bad day, something about to go on a trip of a lifetime.
00:34:39 Andrew
It's just.
00:34:40 Andrew
Yeah.
00:34:41 Andrew
It's why it's such a tragedy when these things.
00:34:44 Andrew
Happen because you.
00:34:45 Andrew
We'd like it to never happen, but it's impossible to make it 0.
00:34:50 Brandon
And I.
00:34:50 Andrew
You try.
00:34:51 Brandon
Jeff Johns is a comic book writer, screenwriter, and film and television producer.
00:34:54 Andrew
OK, I see.
00:34:56 Brandon
Isn't an artist.
00:34:59 Andrew
So I'm going to read a little bit about why this happened on Twitter.
00:35:02 Andrew
Through.
00:35:02 Andrew
Here on the day of the accident, the airplane departed from Athens, Greece, as TWA Flight 881 arrived at JFK in the evening 430 and then refuelled, and the crew was changed.
00:35:03 Andrew
Hmm.
00:35:13 Brandon
Places.
00:35:15 Andrew
The ground maintenance crew locked out the thrust reverser for engine #3 because of technical problems with the sensors during the landing at JFK and additionally severed cables for the engine's thrust reverser were replaced. Yikes.
00:35:21 Andrew
Mm.
00:35:29 Brandon
Yikes.
00:35:30 Andrew
During the fueling of the aircraft, the volumetric shutoff control, which I believe is like when you go to the gas pump and it turns.
00:35:36 Andrew
Off similar to that was believed to have been triggered before the tanks were full, so to continue the pressure fuelling TWA mechanic overrode the automatic VSO by pulling the fuse and an overflow circuit breaker.
00:35:51 Andrew
It indicates that the.
00:35:53 Andrew
Aircraft had numerous VSO related maintenance write ups in the weeks before the accident.
00:35:58 Andrew
The flight was disabled by about an hour because of some issue on the ground with some non aircraft equipment and a baggage problem.
00:36:07 Andrew
They pushed back from the gate and they started the engines at 8:00.
00:36:10 Andrew
Interestingly, they only started engines 1-2 and four and then started #3 about 10 minutes later. During the taxi we departed uneventfully, taking off from runway 22 right 5 minutes later at 8:19 PM.
00:36:27 Andrew
They receive their usual series of heading changes and generally increasing attitude.
00:36:32 Andrew
Sorry, altitude assignments and weather in the area was light winds, scattered clouds, dust, lighting conditions.
00:36:39 Andrew
The last radio transmission from the airplane occurred 11 minutes later at 8:30 PM when the flight flight crew received and acknowledged instructions from Boston Center to climb to 15,000 feet.
00:36:53 Andrew
The last recorded radar transponder returned from the airplane was.
00:36:56 Andrew
By the FAA radar.
00:36:58 Andrew
8:31 PM, which is presumably.
00:37:02 Andrew
Around when it crashed or exploded.
00:37:07 Andrew
38 seconds later, David McLean, the captain of Eastwind Airlines flight 507, a Boeing 737, reported to Boston that he just he quote, just saw an explosion out here. Adding quote, we just saw an explosion up ahead of us here about 16,000 feet.
00:37:21 Andrew
Something like that.
00:37:23 Andrew
It just went down into the water.
00:37:26 Andrew
Subsequently, many air traffic control facilities in the area received reports of an explosion from other pilots and witnesses in the vicinity saw her explosions and large fireballs observed.
00:37:38 Andrew
Debris, sorry.
00:37:41 Andrew
And various civilian, military and police vessels reached the crash site within minutes of the initial impact.
00:37:45 Andrew
Unfortunately, the search for survivors was fruitless and making this the second deadliest aircraft incident in the United States at that time.
00:37:56 Brandon
It brings pride's depressed.
00:38:00 Andrew
Detritus.
00:38:02 Andrew
So the NTSB investigation ended with the adoption of the board's final report in August 2000.
00:38:09 Andrew
And they determined that the probable cause was an explosion of the center wing fuel tank resulting from ignition of the flammable.
00:38:18 Andrew
Fuel air mixture in the tank.
00:38:20 Andrew
The source of ignition could not be determined uncertainty, but of the sources evaluated with the investigation. The most likely was a short circuit outside of the tank that allowed excessive voltage to enter it through electrical wiring associated with the fuel quantity indication system or gas gauge.
00:38:38 Andrew
Let's turn.
00:38:40 Brandon
Have you seen the?
00:38:43 Brandon
The frame of the CIA's animated depiction of how the TWA Flight 800 broke apart.
00:38:50 Andrew
No, but I feel like I should watch that.
00:38:52 Brandon
Did you just? Did you just described it right? Like the?
00:38:54 Andrew
Yeah.
00:38:56 Brandon
The bottom of the aircraft blew out from exploding fuel tank and it cracks better on a fuselage and severed the entire front section of the plane.
00:39:10 Brandon
Take the plane got decapitated.
00:39:10 Andrew
Addition in addition to the probable cause, the NTSB found that the control and contributing factors, the design and certification concept that fuel tank explosions can be prevented solely by precluding ignition sources.
00:39:25 Andrew
And the certification of the 747 with heat sources located beneath the central wing.
00:39:31 Andrew
With no means to reduce the heat transferred into the CWT or to render the fuel tank vapor non combustible.
00:39:38 Andrew
In its final report, the NTSB issued 15 safety recommendations, mostly covering fuel, tank and wiring related issues.
00:39:45 Andrew
Apparently we've adopted some like 83% of all NTSB recommendations.
00:39:50 Andrew
That's good.
00:39:52 Andrew
Along the recommendations was that significant consideration should be given to the development of modifications such as nitrogen in nerding systems for new airplane designs.
00:40:01 Andrew
So basically pumping nitrogen in so that it can't combust because there's no oxygen.
00:40:06 Andrew
Familiar.
00:40:06 Andrew
As long.
00:40:06 Andrew
As I don't keep oxygen generators in.
00:40:07 Andrew
Mm hmm.
00:40:08 Andrew
Fuel tank. We should be fine.
00:40:11 Andrew
All right.
00:40:12 Brandon
But you don't ask about that at the airport these days.
00:40:15 Andrew
Some other legacy stuff though.
00:40:17 Andrew
So the crash of TWA and out of value jet Flight 592 earlier 96 prompted Congress to pass the aviation Disaster Family Assistance Act of 1996.
00:40:17 Andrew
Mm.
00:40:29 Andrew
Among other things, it gives the NTSB instead of the particular airline involved, responsibility for coordinating services to the families of victims of fatal aircraft accidents.
00:40:39 Andrew
In addition, this is.
00:40:41 Andrew
It restricts lawyers and other parties from contacting family members within 30 days.
00:40:44 Andrew
The accident.
00:40:45 Andrew
So pretty much NTSB is where all those.
00:40:48 Andrew
Group and it's a bipartisan, you know, committee.
00:40:48 Brandon
Interesting.
00:40:53 Andrew
It's not very politicized.
00:40:57 Andrew
However.
00:40:59 Andrew
During the investigation, the NTSB and FBI.
00:41:01 Andrew
With each other.
00:41:02 Andrew
The agencies lacked a detailed protocol describing which agencies should take the lead.
00:41:07 Andrew
It was because there was some thought that maybe there was a bomb that exploded or there was a missile or terrorist attack.
00:41:13 Andrew
The FBI wanted to get involved.
00:41:17 Andrew
At the time of the crash, the federal regulations specified that the Ntsb's Aviation accident investigations have priority over all federal investigations, but the FBI felt there could have been criminal involvement.
00:41:27 Andrew
They felt they had to be.
00:41:29 Andrew
So after the after the investigation, it was recognized for a better. There was a need for better clarity.
00:41:35 Andrew
And so the NTSB sought and secured language by the issue in 20.
00:41:39 Andrew
1000, which then led to in 2005, the NTSB and FBI entering into a memorandum of understanding in that the NTSB will be the key investigative agency, but that they will coordinate with the FBI and they can share resources.
00:41:56 Andrew
To further investigate the.
00:41:57 Andrew
So this did help basically solidify the NTSB as the definitive body to investigate Air Accidents.
00:42:05 Andrew
The last two things that are kind of interesting for almost 25 years, the wreckage of Flight 800 was kept by the NTSB and used as an Accident Investigation teaching aid.
00:42:17 Andrew
By 2021, the methods taught using the wreckage were determined to no longer be relevant to modern Accident Investigation, which then relied heavily on new technology, including three-dimensional laser scanning.
00:42:28 Andrew
They did not wish to renew the lease to decommissioned in 2021 and.
00:42:35 Andrew
They scanned or had planned to scan each piece with a three-dimensional scanner, with the data being permanently archived, after which the record records would be destroyed in the metal recycled.
00:42:48 Andrew
Wreckage was destroyed in June 2023 near the former Ashburn facility, in which it was housed.
00:42:55 Andrew
So it taught a lot of people about air investigations, air crash investigations and clarified investigative policies.
00:43:02 Andrew
It improved the design of fuel tanks and it allowed the NTSB to be the primary point of contact for the families of the victims, so.
00:43:11 Andrew
Overall, you know.
00:43:13 Andrew
At least there were some positive changes made to the the industry and the safety recommendations, which is, if you look for the small bright spot in any of these things, that would be it.
00:43:26 Brandon
Yeah.
00:43:28 Brandon
Another thing I noticed is that.
00:43:32 Brandon
There's an article from 1996 from the LA Times talking about how.
00:43:34 Andrew
Hmm.
00:43:40 Brandon
Atwa pilot that was a friend of.
00:43:45 Brandon
Not Jack.
00:43:45 Brandon
What was his?
00:43:46 Brandon
Robert Nope, the Cav working.
00:43:48 Andrew
The pilot.
00:43:50 Andrew
Oh yeah, Kevorkian, Kevorkian, kevorkian.
00:43:52 Brandon
Ralph Ralph's working.
00:43:53 Andrew
Ralph kevorkian.
00:43:56 Brandon
So apparently at the time that.
00:43:59 Brandon
Just like now, the some baseless accusations came out based on incomplete facts.
00:44:07 Brandon
Before.
00:44:09 Brandon
Like you were saying.
00:44:11 Brandon
And they were like this working guy had a strike on his record, and apparently the strike is he landed a plane.
00:44:23 Brandon
When he was told to turn away.
00:44:26 Brandon
In.
00:44:26 Brandon
Louis, because he did want to wait to burn off 7000 lbs of.
00:44:34 Brandon
Fuel and.
00:44:39 Brandon
'Cause there was like a winter storm coming in and he didn't want to try to make it to New York with on low fuel because he was afraid.
00:44:39 Andrew
Yeah, it's crazy like.
00:44:47 Brandon
Would.
00:44:48 Brandon
Sent away after he burned off? Yeah.
00:44:50 Andrew
Yeah, I'm gonna get stuck.
00:44:51 Andrew
Yeah. And then so he therefore blew up the plane he was flying.
00:44:55 Andrew
What are you talking about?
00:44:56 Brandon
Exactly, yeah.
00:44:57 Andrew
The stupidest.
00:44:58 Andrew
Thing.
00:44:59 Andrew
I mean, they're they detected explosive residue at one point, so they thought there was a bomb.
00:45:02 Andrew
Go home.
00:45:04 Andrew
But like the wreckage, pattern didn't show any of things that happened to metal when there's an explosion.
00:45:08 Andrew
Right.
00:45:09 Andrew
From an explosive device and it turned out they had done like a.
00:45:15 Andrew
Dog bomb sniffing dog exercise in that plane. Or they theorize that.
00:45:19 Andrew
Perhaps some explosive residue from a military vessel you know was tracked into that.
00:45:25 Andrew
You know the area or contaminated on the part, so you know.
00:45:29 Andrew
They couldn't really approve it and I think their explanation is pretty plausible.
00:45:34 Andrew
Fuel and mixed with air is pretty damn explosive. Although Jeff feels a little bit more like.
00:45:42 Andrew
Diesel, which requires a sustained.
00:45:47 Andrew
You don't have a spark plug in a diesel.
00:45:49 Andrew
You have a glow.
00:45:49 Andrew
It requires, like a sustained higher heat ignition point, so perhaps this.
00:45:52 Andrew
Come on.
00:45:56 Andrew
Short circuit caused a an issue there, but it makes you wonder if like the volumetric.
00:46:01 Andrew
Since everything wasn't working like, was there a problem with the pressure in the tank or whatever?
00:46:06 Andrew
Yeah, I mean it's it's a real.
00:46:08 Andrew
In any case.
00:46:10 Brandon
Yeah. And then I also got distracted because it said the only times had an article.
00:46:15 Brandon
Said Trump floods California by releasing Northern California water.
00:46:23 Brandon
Federal federally run dam or something? I don't know.
00:46:26 Andrew
The front.
00:46:27 Andrew
Anyway.
00:46:27 Andrew
Is going to kill those marmots or whatever.
00:46:29 Brandon
He's gonna flood the Central Valley.
00:46:33 Brandon
And cause a drought for.
00:46:35 Andrew
There's a wave of water behind you that you can't see right now.
00:46:38 Andrew
Oh no.
00:46:39 Brandon
And I'll see it.
00:46:40 Brandon
Yeah. Well, those were two crazy.
00:46:46 Brandon
1996 accidents that helped inform the future of aviation.
00:46:48 Andrew
Yeah, well, let's just hope that something is learned from these.
00:46:54 Andrew
Like don't speculate before all the facts are known. And then once we do all the facts, maybe we can prove the safety of aviation yet further.
00:47:02 Brandon
Bring divers.
00:47:04 Andrew
Yeah, that's ********, Donald.
00:47:09 Andrew
I'm Michael. Listen your podcast anymore.
00:47:11 Andrew
A liberal.
00:47:12 Andrew
You think, OK.
00:47:13 Brandon
Wow, we had a BLM special like the third episode.
00:47:20 Andrew
I hope this wasn't offensive, that the intention was to, you know, sort of.
00:47:25 Andrew
Pay tribute learning about air safety in the US and you know, I just it's on everyone's mind right now.
00:47:28 Andrew
Mm.
00:47:32 Andrew
It.
00:47:33 Andrew
Seemed like a good topic to cover.
00:47:35 Brandon
Yeah, and it's.
00:47:36 Andrew
And we love aviation.
00:47:38 Brandon
Go ahead. That finish with the word aviation.
00:47:44 Brandon
All right.
00:47:46 Brandon
Any final?
00:47:46 Brandon
Well, that was your final.
00:47:48 Andrew
That was my final.
00:47:48 Brandon
We have sets of. Yeah. That's it for this week's edition of the 90s.
00:47:51 Brandon
In your findings, is out every Monday until the end of May.
00:47:55 Brandon
Find some Instagram, blue sky and YouTube. Which ones talk about a future episodes people like to support the show.
00:48:03 Brandon
Check out our patreonpatreon.com/david.
00:48:06 Brandon
And finally, you can also contact us through our website namingandes.com.
00:48:10 Brandon
Subscribe to us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, audible, the giant floodwaters that secretly behind me, pocket cast cast box I heart good pods and whatever you podcast from raining.
00:48:21 Brandon
That's Andrew, and we'll catch you next time.
00:48:46 Andrew
I'm the onion driving.